Rodbuilder Help.

[cameron dixon]

g'day guys. I just stumbled across this site and im happy to see there is an aussie site with a forum avalible for discussion on rod building . For some reason rod building in our country just doesn't seem to generate the interest that it recieves in other countries. I just posted a question on a US rodbuilding website on a topic that I thought would only attract a very narrow field but it had 120 hits and 8 replies overnight. Lets hope that one day we will see the same enthusiam and popularity here.
I've only made 13 rods so far so i am very much just learning but i really enjoy making them and the satisfaction you get from fishing them.
Ive just learnt about two techniques that has me tempted to dismantle and rebuild almost all of the rods that i put so many hours into.
The first technique is the spiral wrap (excellent theory, I cant believe you dont see them on the ready made racks).
The other is the new concept guide system which im about to try for the first time based on the information outlined by rodbuilder Tom Kirkman.
Has anyone out there that is familiar with this technique come across any flaws in the system or has any advice that may save me some heart ache.

[cameron dixon]

Hi again. I was hoping steve or someone else out there can suggest a suitable reel seat for building a split grip handle. The three local tackle shops to me have a very limitted selection.My concern is achieving a neat finish at the rear of the reel seat without the use of cork. Im not sure if there is an insert avalible for a standard reel seat that can be reamed to suit or if i have to maybe find a suitable stainless washer that can be painted?
The blank is a samurai 2-4kg about 9mm at base and I currently have a fuji 17mm reel seat that im happy to upgrade if necessary.
Any advice will be greatly appreciated, thanks.

[Rodman]

Hi Cameron,
Thanks for posting on the forum! I'll itemise your questions:
1. Spiral wrap: This is a very old technique and does work well but only if you set it up with the reel you plan to use on the rod (which is one reason why you don't see it readily on production rods). I prefer the 'fast-turn' method, getting the line under the rod ASAP: others prefer the 'slow-turn', with the guides gradually spiralling up the length of the blank. The trick in either case is to align the guides so that the line doesn't touch the blank as it changes from top to bottom.
2. Kirkman's guide concept, also know as Fuji's 'New Guide Concept' does indeed work very well, in fact I use my own version of the concept in my 'SlikCast' ™ system. Read as much of the literature as you can to throughly understand the idea behind it and use the best quality, lightest guides you can find. Do lots of test casting. Oh, and don't pay too much attention to the suggested guide spacing on the Fuji site: work out your own!
3. Can't quite understand what you mean about the rear of the reel seat for the split grip. Split rear grips usually have a small grip behind the seat, then open blank, finishing with a small grip, usually a shaped butt cap or counter-balance housing, like this.
If you wished, you could use a large winding check to finish off the transition to the reel seat from the blank, or build up a 'ramp' using a plastic filler such as Plastibond, sand to shape and overwrap with thread and epoxy. For a seat size on the Samurai, I would suggest a #16, but #17 will work well if you prefer a 'fatter' reel seat to suit your hand.
BTW, you're very unlikely to find anything but a Fuji-style pipe or cast seat in Australia. They very much dominate the small retail rod-building-supply market here.
Good luck in your projects,
Steve.

[cameron dixon]

thanks for the quick reply steve. I've done guite a bit of research on the new concept theory and I think I've got my head around it.
I realise that the suggested guide charts aren't of much use because of varying handle locations and reel angle but my individual guide spacings and sizes are quite a way off the fuji charts. Do the sizes #6 tip,6,6,6,6,10,16,20 sound like they would be in the ball park for a 1500 spinning reel?
As for the split grip set up, I have seen a photo of a rod on a website that has a rod with a tiny cork butt with no foregrip at all and nothing behind the reel either. The reel seat on this particular rod has a kind of hood over the top which i could only describe as being ergonomic looking. Basically the reel seat doubles as your grip. It would make a very comfortable rod to use and your forefinger would be touching the blank directly which I like the idea of on ultra light rods. There is what I think must be a model number that is also on the page showing the reel seat. Does 3S69MLXF handle mean anything to you?
Thanks again for your advice.

[cameron dixon]

Me again, Sorry Steve but i replied before i looked at the links you gave me .
One of the reel seats is the same as the one I was trying to describe but it was used the opposite way around which I think would be more comfortable to handle. They have obviously filled the housing for the grip with something but i cant tell what with from the photo.
Interesting handle though. Have you ever sourced a reel seat like that here in Aus?

[Rodman]

Hi Cameron,
The reel seat you mention is the 'Comfort Grip Graphite Casting Seat' (Part N°:AERO-16CG) by American Tackle. To the best of my knowledge it is not available in Au. You can source it OS from this link.
As you can see it is sold as a cast seat, but you can turn it upsidedown and use it as a spin seat. You will need to order a matching rear grip, unless you are very skillful at cutting the rear grip to match the compound curves of the seat.
You can get away without a foregrip, but I like to have one as IMHO the rod just looks better with one.
Your choice of guide size is OK for your rod but you might try swapping the #16 for a #12 and see if you cast is the same. If so, go with the 12 as it's lighter and will give less air drag than the 16. Use the Alconite Fuji 'Y' frame guides on the lower section (below the choke guide) and 'L' frames above it for this job.
Good luck. Post some pics when you get the job done.
Steve.

[cameron dixon]

Thanks heaps steve, your input has been very helpful. i'll put some pics on when completed but may take a few weeks, finding time these days is not easy.

[Rodman]

Originally posted by cameron dixon
Thanks heaps steve, your input has been very helpful. i'll put some pics on when completed but may take a few weeks, finding time these days is not easy.

You're not alone there, Cameron! (Of course, I get to make rods every day, but never have enough time to use 'em!)
Just remember to start another thread in this forum when you post so as the email alerter will send me a note.
Steve.

[SadDad]

Hey Steve,
Been out of touch for a while, lots to catch up on; Looks like shimano are testing the waters with the release of spiral wrap rod in their new range. Wonder what your thoughts are??

[Rodman]

Hi SadDad,
I've done some work with spiral guides, even wrote an article about it for RodCrafter magazine. They work OK if done right, but you really need the reel that's going to be used on the rod to set the guides up correctly.

Commercial OTR rods make an appearance every so often but they are generally unpopular with conservative fishos (which are most fishos, btw!) so they are soon banished to the back cupboard by distributors until they want to come up with another gimmick to sell rods.

Steve.