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GIVE IN BUT NEVER GIVE UP

Discussion in 'Chewing the fat' started by Old fisho, Sep 28, 2019.

  1. Old fisho

    Old fisho Well-Known Member

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    The days are ticking over and soon head for Canberra again.
    Pleased to be able to have such faith and confidence in my guy there.
    Rajeev is nothing short of a lovely bloke.

    But not here for that.
    I have enjoyed my stints at catching whiting up the river during winter. Talking with Bill a day or so ago, he says I've had well over 70 and he is close to 50 fish. Lots returned of course but a few feeds reside in the fridge. I have to keep in mind the possible future difficulty with using a bait pump. No guarantees yet but highly likely.
    First job; search for options.
    Second job; do something about it.
    Could I catch whiting on fly? Why not? We can catch almost every fish on a fly of some type so have started to work on a pattern.
    Logic says think of blood worms as we pump from sand.
    We use blood worm patterns in the lake when midge are hatching but they're vastly different characters.
    My gear is still at Eucumbene so I borrowed a vice, bobbin holder, some tying silk and materials from a mate. We started him fly fishing years ago.
    I chose to use red maribu. If you don't know, that's dyed ostrich feather. Very light (as light as a feather actually), soft fluffy and very soft so it moves in the water. It also floats all over the room if there's a draught and sticks to carpet.
    The tie chosen was on a #10 long shank hook as we use for garfish and whiting.
    About 20cm of fine red coloured copper wire was tied onto the shank, forward of center to try and make the fly sink head first. Worms swim straight toward the bottom and I wanted a deliberate sink rate. I also wanted to try and imitate the hundreds of tiny legs on them so lots of movement is hoped for. It will be tested/used in shallow water (1m).
    The wire is wrapped to make a slight bulge to concentrate the weight factor behind the head.
    The tail is a bundle of Malibu tied in ahead of the hook bend, extending about 40-45mm past the bend.
    Most worms have a darkish head so I tied in a small bundle of black maribu, facing forward, then pulled it back over itself, tied it off and cut off the surplus. It can be used on the next fly.
    For fly fishers; the body is tied similar to a wooly bugger fly with a fairly big fluffy body.
    This was then trimmed to a slender shape. It actually used quite a lot of maribu.
    Time will tell and a technique may have to be created but I have some hopes. The shape suggests it will cast OK with little wind resistance and I'd like to fish it on my favourite #5 weight rod which carries a Hardy Princess reel, with perhaps a sink tip, weight forward line.
    Attaching a pic of the second prototype. IMG_20190928_105103TBX.jpg
    If you have any ideas, let's know. Love to learn some improvements.
    If you're wondering; yes, I did get a complaint about feathery fluff floating around the kitchen. Maribu is terrible to pick up; you can see how it sticks to everything.
    Noel
     
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  2. Madfisher

    Madfisher Well-Known Member

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    Great stuff Noel, that gets the old grey matter ticking over.I am sure Brett and Cherie from BWC flies regularly catch whiting, although maybe on poppers.
    Tight lines ,mate.
    Ps if you want a contact number for tghem i can get it for you.
    Cheers Pete
     
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  3. Tackleberry

    Tackleberry Well-Known Member

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    Noel that is one very nice vice .
    Pricey I bet ......
     
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  4. Old fisho

    Old fisho Well-Known Member

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    I don't know really as I borrowed it. It doesn't perform quite as well as mine but they are all different and a bit of practice is an advantage. My young bloke (54 now) uses a Renzetti. It cost him hundreds but it's a true rotary vice and a dream to use. We both have midge vice attachments for tying tiny stuff like size 18 hooks. Peter has tied down to size 22 but I'm not interested in smaller than 20 and doubt I'd do that well now. When so small, they have to be well tied. Every wrap of silk thread makes a difference.
    Noel.
     
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  5. blair

    blair Well-Known Member

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    Very nice looking vice I might have to get a decent one, one day. I have tried to get whiting on fly no luck I tried worm patterns shrimp patterns etc I am sure they will have a go if the right fly Is presented I have caught the ocaisional whiting on lures bright pink was best.
     
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  6. Old fisho

    Old fisho Well-Known Member

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    G'day Blair (and others)
    If I had to buy another vice and that's unlikely, I'd get a Renzetti like Peter's. After a few practices; the rotating head is fabulous to use. I love it and have used it several times when at the lake.
    What sort of flies did you try for whiting? Any chance of seeing a pic or two? Just looking for ideas. Even a description will do. I have a fair imagination for that sort of thing.
    I see no reason why whiting wouldn't take a fly, with no idea of the presentation needed. That's often more important than the actual fly. I will probably start by using a sink tip line with a rod length, 9', straight leader about 6lb. No doubt part of the answer would be using the tide flow, which is not fast up the river, to wash a fly along the drop offs of the sand banks. This is little different to what we do when chasing flatties in the lake with SPs. Nor is it different to drifting a wet fly in a moving water river. In fact, that's exactly what it is except it runs in both directions and drop offs to fish would likely change with rising and falling tides. That could also provide more available fishing water and opportunities. So much for theory.
    Like many other pursuits, I've mastered the theory of it but the practical side lets me down at times.
    I have 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 weight rods here and will likely start with my favourite Fenwick5 weight. At Eucumbene we have 2, 3 and 4 weights as well. My #5 doesn't handle the sinking line as well as it does a weight forward floater and will likely upgrade to a seven for a bit more distance. The water is shallow so it shouldn't take much to get a sinking fly nearer to the sand. I guess I have to remember it's only a tail flick from the sand to the surface up there. It would be interesting to look into some dry fly patterns as whiting take surface lures. Perhaps a Dahlberg Diver would be as good as anything. That's a surface popper tied usually with different coloured deer hair.
    I have caught plenty of garfish on flies resembling the little white sand fleas found under old kelp, while living at Orbost in Vic. Caught a couple here on the lake just to prove to my old mate Ziggy that it could be done. He simply didn't believe me before.
    Whiting are not too critical in what they eat. We've had them on worms, nippers, pippies, soft plastics, metal vibes and small diving hard bodies in different colours, as well as surface poppers. So why not a fly I say?
    Ideas and suggestions most welcome from anyone.
    Noel
    In theory at least; a good all round fisher
     
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  7. blair

    blair Well-Known Member

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    Whiting should take flies I think I haven't had a go at them when they are "on" if they take a minnow lure sometimes they should take a fly I have heard of those sand fleas flies and that they work on whiting, haven't tried them any chance of a pic of the sand flea fly.
     
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  8. Old fisho

    Old fisho Well-Known Member

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    You've made my day Blair. I was not aware that anyone else had used them or even heard of them. They were something Peter and I dreamed up. Have none but will try and remember and see if I can get a pic.
    Noel
    Flying flea trainer
     
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  9. Old fisho

    Old fisho Well-Known Member

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    Still working/dreaming? Young bloke has brought some of my fly tying gear back from Eucumbene. Much better with more material options.
    Now working on mark 4 in the worm tying developmental process.
    Still using red maribu for the tail but this one with fine lead wire on the hook shank, overwrapped with a purplish red Chenille and tied on a circle book rather tha
    n a straight. Feel sure it's the best version to date. May get a chance
    to try it Friday. See pic
    .
    IMG_20191016TBX_125732.jpg
     
  10. blair

    blair Well-Known Member

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    Looks good, I would bite it myself if waved in front of my face! is that egg / glowbug hook? haven't seen a turned point on that type of hook before, the egg hooks work very well.
    Let me know when have got a whiting catcher developed and I will make some and have a go up here I may start working on a sand flea fly next time I feel like tying, I heard somewhere the big mullet and whiting eat sandfleas.
    Have you a name for the fly? may I suggest the Spitfire MKIV.
     
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